Based Camp: The THOT Police

<p>This was written by AI: In this thoughtful discussion, Malcolm and Simone engage in a deep dive into the phenomena known as "thots" and the Red Pill Community. They discuss the psychological, societal, and relational aspects of these subjects, considering the stereotypes and realities that exist within them. Malcolm and Simone present their unique perspectives on how certain behaviors and actions can influence the narrative context of a relationship, and how individuals adapt within different contexts. Additionally, they delve into the influence of Red Pill ideologies on online communities, offering insights into the perception of "thots" within these spaces. Join us in this enlightening exploration of the complexities of gender dynamics, sexuality, and online communities.Based Camp - The Thot Problem</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> [00:00:00] What type of woman decides to sign their entire, this one short life they have to being. Submissive to someone else only for attraction to that person. That's a thot, like that's a very definition of a thot, the type of person who would do that. And that's a very narrow psychological profile. Now, this profile can be elicited from most people, men and women.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Like, say, suppose you trained a woman how to be like this aggressive, sexy bombshell who was like very forward and very good at playing men and everything like that. And, and this woman created a whole movement around how to do this, like how to seduce men like this.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> And then these women are like, it's all men are simpering, pathetic dogs, right? And you're like, well, no, you are able to bring that personality out of any man because of the mechanisms that you are using to attract those men. [00:01:00] Yes. The systems you are using can attract actually a broad range of men.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> But they change those men's personalities within the narrative context of your relationship. Because we do change our personalities in different narrative contexts, the way I act at work is different from the way I act at home. And so if you're creating a persistently similar narrative context, you are going to create a persistently similar person.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> hello, Simone. How's it going today? Good. Hi Malcolm. I am excited to be here because today we are going to talk about thots, not intellectually, of course t h o t a hot woman who is vapid, primarily interested in sex. And who is apparently a major problem for communities like the red pill community. And in a lot of these conservative intellectual spaces, [00:02:00] I. There's a heavy emphasis, a a lot of them almost seem to be like a red pill diaspora, where as the men's rights movement of like 20 years ago began to dissipate into like the MGTOWers and the red Pillars and the, the other types of pickup artists type people.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> They begin to influence a lot of the culture of new online right-leaning intellectual movements pretty heavily actually, in the same way that sort of the Tumblr feminists ended up influencing a lot of progressive online cultures. Ah, yes, yes. Where this gets really interesting is that thots.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> In the real world, the sort of thirsty manipulative of women, like they're not actually a problem. They're, they're not a problem to most men. And so the question is, is why are they perceived as such a problem by the, the red pill diaspora? And I have a theory around [00:03:00] this, so I always found the red bill community really interesting.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> I did you, I actually think you used to browse it more than I did. Um, Way more. And they, I think, were fairly accurate in their understanding of female sexuality.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Well, it was also the first community online where I really encountered a more economic analysis of mm-hmm. Of relationships and dating strategy and sexual strategy, which I think is a far better lens than the typical self-help or romance based analysis.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Oh,</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> absolutely. Yeah. And, and, and they were saying things that were, Obviously true that people weren't happy to say, which was things like actually if you look at statistics, the majority of women do prefer men with dark triad traits, like, narcissism and machiavellianism and that if you like, like in terms of</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> mm-hmm. So I'll use a different word so I won't get demonetized. In terms of [00:04:00] submission and like in a bedroom context, right? That the, the majority, not all, but, but women do differential prefer that. , and also stuff like muscle building. Right. Like, oh, if you, if you get toned and you spend time at the gym, you will be more physically attractive to women.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> And through these realizations, they began to be able to pick up more women than they were previously able to pick up. And four young men. That is a major. Problem in life, like in a way that I don't know if women can fully understand just how much consternation this causes young men.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Well, I think there's another really big factor to like the original traction that the community enjoyed, which is that.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> In general, a big premise of the red pill, et cetera. Community seemed to be that men have been told a lie that being a nice guy to women is not going to get you sex. And that that's just a very misleading and very damaging lie. And here are these [00:05:00] various things you can do to actually. Get sex. And I think to a certain extent those tactics work.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> But also I think part of it was just like encouraging men to be direct and assertive about their desire to have sex with women. Like before I met you, I never encountered a guy who was like clear about his motives. It was just. Like he kind of expected it. It seems like all guys kind of expected women to come onto them somehow.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Like they were never gonna</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> see, well, you were dating in San Francisco, right? Yeah. Which I think is, is well this is a community that I think is most inundated with the exact opposite mindset. Mm-hmm. Right.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> But anyway, I feel like that was a major factor of, it was just like the fact that men. We're suddenly being told, oh, guess what?</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Not being assertive, not being direct isn't going to work for you. That even just that basic realization was really meaningful and impactful.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> And w I mean, what are your other thoughts on the red pill community if you're [00:06:00] going to have</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> more? I, I, I loved the, the pessimism of it. I love like the concept of olt.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> All women are like that, but like, There's this, this, this animosity that I found to be very intriguing and the straw man of women that, that was that was presented was great. I loved the.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> The experimentation. They'd have case studies, remember?</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Mm Oh no Field, field reports. Something like that.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Field, yeah. Field reports. Yeah. The lingo in general was great. I don't know if using Smooth Lingo would get me, like, get us demonetized. Like I, I don't know if I should. Oh yeah, you two probably have refer to the carousel that women would ride.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Oh, well, yeah. But I just mean, I, I bet even like, even if we say the term red pill in the tags here, we're probably gonna get like de-listed.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> So we'll see. But no, I, I agree with a lot of what you're saying and I, and I think a community, I'd love to do a separate video on later. It's the MGTOW community, the men going their own way. Community. Yes. Yes. But one of the things that I really wanted to focus on here [00:07:00] is an illusion. The, the Walt illusion, I guess I'd call it, or the thought illusion.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Ah,</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Like they, these women's straw men, they, they're not representative. Like why</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> do they believe it? Because I believe that this is their actual experience of women. And so, which is why it goes back to what they figured out, which was they figured out some ways to be sexually. Attractive to women.. And it was actually very effective.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> The, the problem is, if you go to a stream and you say, this stream only has catfish in it, and then somebody points out. Well, you're using a catfish lure. Of course, you're only catching catfish if the thing you are using to lure women is how attractive you are going to be in bed to those women. You are going to only lure women who go after guys based [00:08:00] on how good they are in bed.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> This is where these thought women come from. They come from this very narrow sliver of women who is like, oh, I will go on a date with a guy because I want to have sex with that guy. And nothing else.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Well, and I, I think it's underrated just how un unusual this, this demographic is.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> I, I cannot think of a single friend. Who was like, fit this criteria, like Agamous person who just</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> wanted, so right here I was pretty good at getting women to sleep with me back in the day. Okay.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> But you also weren't like a triangle man,</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Chad. No, I wasn't. But I had developed a lot of the systems and what I would say is, is while I use different systems to do it Women enter a different psychological space depending on the mechanism [00:09:00] you have used to get them to want to, like the lure you have used.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Right? Mm. To, to, to catch that particular fish. And so the same woman who is dating you primarily because you are a bed partner for her versus a woman who's dating you because she respects you, will have a very different mental framing of that relationship. And her psychological profile within the relationship will be very different.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> This is true of men as well, depending on why they're going out with a woman. Are you going out with a woman because you think she's. Hot or are you going out with a woman because you respect her? You are going to act very differently in those two relationships. Thoughts as like a a concept?</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Any woman can, to an extent become a thought if a guy is able to lure her. Using only his, his body,</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> essentially his body,</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> right? Mm-hmm. Or, but not just his body. Other things that cause attraction, like power dynamics in his body, power dynamics. But if it's, if it's primarily because of attraction that she's dating you, [00:10:00] one, of course she's not gonna have loyalty to you.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> She's, she's not dating you because she respects you or likes you. She's dating you because you have maxed out an attraction metric. Of course, she's going to go with the next guy who offers more attraction to her. Right. That's your value to her because that's what you sold to her. You didn't sell anything else.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> You didn't sell a complete package. All right,</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> so wait, that's really interesting what you're saying. You're saying basically, not only does the broad red pill strategy, Tactic attract thoughts, but it can literally create thoughts like it will train women who might otherwise be very loyal partners who would be less polygamous, more committed better committed partners in general to instead become unfaithful hypogam.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Yes. Game playing s**t testing partners.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Right, exactly. Because you have based your [00:11:00] relationship. Off of their attraction to you. Mm-hmm. And cause of that, that is the value you have to them. Mm-hmm. And I think that this is the thing, we, we have a, Twitter thread on this, but you guys are right when they say the majority of women prefer to take on the submissive role in a relationship.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Right. What they often get wrong when you're looking at like the red pill movement or something like that, is women are also human beings. And when they take on a submissive role, they want to take on this submissive role, not just in service to a guy's ego. But towards some larger ideological objective.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> They want to work with a guy who they respect on some sort of bigger, broader project with their life. Not just the guy, being tough and, and, and doing whatever. I mean, I'm sure you could elaborate on this more, Simone.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Well, yeah. I mean, a, a point that you've made is if a woman is going to devote her life to someone, [00:12:00] like should probably be someone working on something meaningful.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> If it's not, then you as a woman who's joined onto that team is wasting her time. Like just devoting your life to someone else's vanity is kind of a waste of your</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> life, right? Yeah. What type of woman decides to sign their entire, this one short life they have to being. Submissive to someone else only for attraction to that person. That's a thot, like that's a very definition of a thot, the type of person who would do that. And that's a very narrow psychological profile. Now, this profile can be elicited from most people, men and women.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Like, say, suppose you trained a woman how to be like this aggressive, sexy bombshell who was like very forward and very good at playing men and everything like that. And, and this woman created a whole movement around how to do this, like how to seduce men like this.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> And then these women are like, [00:13:00] it's all men are simpering, pathetic dogs, right? And you're like, well, no, you are able to bring that personality out of any man because of the mechanisms that you are using to attract those men. Yes. The systems you are using can attract actually a broad range of men.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> But they change those men's personalities within the narrative context of your relationship. Because we do change our personalities in different narrative contexts, the way I act at work is different from the way I act at home. And so if you're creating a persistently similar narrative context, you are going to create a persistently similar person.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> And some of these guys will say, well, come on, you can't be serious. Women don't really date guys because they respect them, because they want to work on projects with them. I know. I'll let Simone answer that.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Oh, 100%. I [00:14:00] mean, I think people come to relationships with a lot of different goals and contexts, and you can choose.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> What you want your lure to be. Essentially your, your lure to draw someone in. And I actually, my first message to you on OkCupid was about your startup because you chose to use things that you worked on as potential conversation starters, and your work was one of those things. One. Question I heard at some point was, who, who do you need to be to bring out a person that you want someone else in a relationship to be, like the way that you treat someone and the way you, that you behave personally determines how people connect to you.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> So I think the big problem with the. Optimized red pill archetype is that it really brings out a******s and women, which is really bad.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Well, and there's a way for women to attract people that brings out a******s and men. This isn't</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> like a one. 100%. And I mean, one thing that we talk about in the relationships book that we wrote is the extent to which [00:15:00] abuse begins on both sides with what you call proto abuse.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> These like typically small, like technically. Harmless, technically not, not bad or not</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> toxic, like ending a conversation in the middle of a conversation, for example, because then just walking outta the room, total control over how that conversation has happened, which is a, a means of non consensually exercising control over the other person.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Mm-hmm. And those sorts of things simmer and create bigger problems in the future, but it</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> also, it, it draws out certain behavioral patterns in someone else will. And I think the reason why, for example, s**t testing is something that women are. Accused of doing a lot by red pillars or by just generally that broad group.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> I don't even know how big the red pill is anymore. I've not been paying enough. Is that if you are primarily offering. Power dynamics and male dominance as your value proposition in a relationship. Of course, a woman or whatever partner you have with you is going to be validating that or exercising that, I [00:16:00] wouldn't even say, like literally trying to deceit you.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> They're, they're, they're enjoying it. Like, how can you enjoy a power dynamic? How can you maximize this value proposition if you are not pushing the boundary to the extent where it shows up again? So, if a woman's coming to you and she loves the power dynamic, and now you guys are, are in a relationship together, if she wants that power dynamic, she's gonna have to push a little bit to get you to.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Demonstrate the fun dominance thing that she really loves, so like that's your story. Yeah. Yeah. You're selling. And so, she, she signed up for the, for the Lion Show, and now she's asking for the Lion show again, and she has to poke the lion for him to growl or whatever, you know what I mean?</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Like, but</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> normal. But, but, but something that should also be clear , is in normal healthy relationships, s**t, tests aren't rare. They just don't happen. Right? Right. They, that's not like a thing that like normal, healthy adults do. It's a weird [00:17:00] attraction dynamic that you have created through the value proposition you offered, given that you were optimized around this framing.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> But the framing is useful. This dominant framing is an arbitrage opportunity given how few guys. Demonstrate that really effectively in our society today. Yeah. I mean, you can arbitrage meaning that you are offering something that very few other people in the marketplace are offering.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> And so yeah, like you could attract women who might be actually out of your league by doing that, but out of the league of the real you in the same way that women can get men who are out of the league of the types of partners who will settle for the real them, but who are willing to sleep with them.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Right. A man can get a woman who's out of the league of like being in a real relationship with them, but who will date them for this power dynamic fantasy that they're creating? Mm-hmm. Um, But then you need to what? Be in frame for the rest of your life till you die. Like, that sounds miserable. That is not, you did not [00:18:00] win.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> You trapped yourself in a cage. It's like, congratulations, you played yourself. You never get to be yourself again. For the rest of your life. But you get a show off an attractive woman for</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> the next, well, 20 years, I mean years old in, in defense of the red pill. There's a lot of like, overlap between red pill, men's rights, mgt, et cetera, and stoicism.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> And I do think that a forcing function, like let's say a thought female partner who forces you to always maintain frame, also forces a certain level of constant self-discipline that might be appreciated by someone of this community because they appreciate how they're forced to be kept sharp.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> So I'm just, I don't think that anyone actually maintains frame.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Well, that's what, no, no, no. I'm genuine here. I think that. It is very hard to maintain that type of frame without becoming abusive. I think this is where you get like the Steve Crowders and stuff like that.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> That is no, I, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. So I'm gonna push back again. I think if you end up with like a tread wife who just really [00:19:00] likes being submissive and, and because I, I, so there are thoughts and then there are triad wifes and I think thoughts regularly like.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Mm. Want to push back. Like they're more like the brat dynamic.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Right. Well, because they're interested in a constant power dynamic. I don't think triad wives want a constant power dynamic. Yeah.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> They don't. Well, and also like tread wives are not going to be interested in sleeping with Chad's because they know that chads are not going to commit triad wives</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> are not going after dark triad trait mail.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Well, that's, here's the other thing is, is it's really interesting to me how small a sliver of the like, The sort of ideal red pill male is of interest to female populations. Like none of the friends that I grew up with went to college with, et cetera, were attracted to this archetype. And yes, I was friends with nerdy people, nerdy smart people.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> This archetype</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> can get these, I I guarantee you, they can get these women to sleep with them. They just cannot get these women to sleep with them and stay sane. And it's, it is the [00:20:00] same with with the wife thing. Women in this triad wife mindset. They are not with a guy because that guy is, is attractive.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> That is not the power dynamic you sell to bring out a tread wife in a person or to have like a stable triad wife relationship. You what brings out a stable tread wife relationship is being a good dad. That's what a tread wife wants. They want a good No, it true. More than it is. It is. And</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> they also, they also want a husband to serve.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> So they, they had, there has to be a level of confidence. There has to be a level of dominance,</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> yeah. And well, here's an interesting, we talk about the lure you use in the framing of the initial relationship. So we can talk about our early relationship as an example of that. So you look at our early relationship, and it was completely based around the company that we were starting together.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> And what that framed for us, that you reached out to me about starting a company that we were constantly talking about career and company and, and, and building something like that. It meant that a lot of the[00:21:00] dynamics that we came into and what we were offering each other was .</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Competence, intelligence, curiosity, and work ethic because that is what specif Well, and specifically you're starting a company with</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> in ambitious, complimentary, complimentary skill sets. Yeah. In that I was able to do things you weren't able to do and you were able to do things I was not able to do. So it was complimentary skillsets, working on entrepreneurial endeavors together, while also being like compatible as romantic partners and friends.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> So, yeah. But,</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> but, but what that means is that for you or me to go after someone else, given the framing of our relationship, right. Early in our relationship, what would've caused us to go for somebody else is finding a more competent individual, right? Somebody who was harder working or smarter or, something like that, right?</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> But what's interesting about that kind of relationship, Is that it is one you invest in to an extent. So because we have like literally invested in similar projects together over a long period of time, the [00:22:00] differential value I have to you and you have to me, could not be replicated by another person who was just marginally better than me or you.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> So, well, it comes down to aligned incentives and where each party</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> is leaning. Who was, 50% smarter than you, 50% harder working than you. The amount I would have to give up in just our, like, companies and public image to, try to start over with this person would make it, outside of any emotions I feel for you.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Just a terrible prospect.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Yeah. But you're talking about sunk costs, I'm talking about aligned incentives, and by that I mean when you are working with someone, Toward shared values, shared goals, shared companies, whatever it might be. It, it might even be just creating a family and a life together like in a more tread way.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Yeah. That there is not this same kind of constant friction when you're looking at a typical red pill relationship. It's very extractive on both ends. [00:23:00] So for the women who are attracted to those relationships, it is, to what extent am I getting the dominance displays the. The other sorts of experiences and scenes that I want from this relationship.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Sort of the drama, the thrill, the new relationship energy, the feelings of threats. And then for the men it's to what extent can I have one or many super hot female partners that like, really respect and validate me essentially. Mm-hmm. And those are both very individualized and in extractive approaches.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> And those are not aligned incentives. And so that also makes these relationships inherently unstable and. There's, it's funny because to what, to one extent, like pickup artistry, red pill, et cetera, is very, very good at looking at incentives and very, very good at recognizing misaligned incentives. And yet there's no discussion of, okay, wait.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Then how do we make aligned in how do we make stable relationships? Or both partners are working towards the same thing or something bigger than themselves. It's [00:24:00] like they can't get out of this atomization and and selfhood that is ultimately, Leaving them more isolated than they ever would be. It's, it's interesting.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> I, I, I could not have said it better than that. I think that's a really good way to put it. And, and this is what creates this thought problem where it is literally what they are turning the women in society into, that they're interacting with. Now. It is true that, if</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> you could look at like divorce laws or something like that and be like, yeah, well, women have such an advantage. It's really the legal system, which is turning them into these monsters. But I think that that misunderstands how screwed a woman is in a long-term relationship and that a woman's value on the marketplace in terms of the types of guys she can get goes down much more dramatically as they age than a man's.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Yeah. So, if a woman starts dating a guy in her mid twenties and then that guy divorces her when she hits 45, you could be like, oh, well she [00:25:00] got, all this money and stuff that he worked for. How terrible is that? But she's not gonna get another partner of his quality, whereas he can get another partner of equal quality, so, well men,</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> men enjoy.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> In terms of the typical value propositions, like men are more of a. Resources and dominance kind of offering, whereas women are more of a youth infertility offering. So you get cumulative advantages as a man, especially if you accumulate wealth and confidence over time. Whereas as a woman like. You spend your youth and it's gone.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Once your fertility window is passed, it's gone. Like you're not getting it back. And then you're even worse off from even just a like, basic survival standpoint. Well, I love</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> how, how, like it's weird that there's like this faction of our society that like, they know that, like they know deep down that like it is harder for an older woman to get a partner, right?</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> But they're like, how can you say that that's so offensive? Like, all women are equally valuable. And it's like, well, I mean, you don't literally think that [00:26:00] all women can get the same men do you? Like you? You understand that there is a differential value, even if it's just socially that we place on these things.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> But the larger point I was making here is from the red pill perspective. Is that you can often over focus on just the way that guys get screwed in relationships. Mm-hmm. And miss the, the system. Any system in which leaving a partner is possible really screws over boast, genders, and that you need more sort of sunk cost was in relationships and social structures that make it.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Very unlikely that, or, or at least more costly to leave a person and we just don't have those in society these days. But in addition to that you like, the best defense against any of these things as a man or as a woman, is to more carefully screen your partner upfront and make sure you understand the value proposition you're offering them, as opposed to just getting the best possible partner you can get..[00:27:00] Agreed. Well, I love you. I'm, I'm glad that you, she came after me when we were, when I was on the dating market.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> I did, I reached out to</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> you. She was in she was, she was like optimizing her profile around nerds. So she was in full Stormtrooper armor in it. And I had seen her profile before, but I thought that she was hiding that she was fat because I, I'm, I'm that kind of cynic.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> That's not how the, the plating works. Like if I were, if I were huge, you would tell like the little rounded like sight plates would not fight over my legs.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Fat. A little fat. I thought you were a little fat,</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> a little. You see, you couldn't, you couldn't handle a little fat. I. Some baby father.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Simone.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Simone. Well, thank goodness.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> And it's, Hey, we all have preferences. We all have preferences.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Okay. Hey, no, no, this, this goes both ways. I put the fat clause in our marriage contract. Oh yeah,</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> she did. She. Gets to ban me from things if I get too fat. Now, of course I can do that for her too, but like I</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> I will never, I will never.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> No, but you like [00:28:00] the way I</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> eat, tripped the fat clause. I have accidentally</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> tripped the fat clause. Yeah, I, I have imposed the fat clause on you a couple times. I have never tripped the fat wire because I weigh and measure all of my food. What's the meanest</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> clause? The most thought clause, I'll tell you the meanest clause in our relationship contract.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Because we did put together contracts. We're like, okay, let's, and this is what we mean when I'm like, find out everything that can go wrong before the relationship. So something doesn't come up later that causes a problem in your relationship. So we just interviewed a bunch of people, found everything that had gone wrong in their relationships, and then like, like a hundred people or something.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> And, and made sort of a list and we're like, let's discuss how we will handle every one of these scenarios. Like suppose one of our parents needs a place to live. Suppose you know, how, what, what's the appropriate temperatures, but. Of all of these, the most evil one. And, and she did this to me, the boat clause.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> The boat clause, which is, I can't just go out and buy a boat. I cannot, she cannot wake up one morning and ha and see a boat [00:29:00] in our yard. And what this actually applies to is any. I think purchase over $10,000. I cannot buy without the veto permission of the other partner or No? No,</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> it's, it's, it's a size, it's a size thing.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> And the contract, because we, we each have discretionary spending that like, oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not, I don't care if you are like buying puppies and drowning them, like per contract, that's fine. What isn't Okay. Is large pieces of property that affect both of us and are like, just, just big is sores.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> The</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> boat is gonna bleaching in our yard. I cannot, it also applies to pools, apparently.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> That's the other thing. Yeah, because it's a size thing, like, again, like you can't, you can't spend discretionary money on a giant money hole eyesore that will sit there and collect dust.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> No. That's gonna be what destroys our relationship.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> One day I'm gonna, I'm gonna come back to the house with a giant used sailboat and it'll just be sitting in our yard.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Well, I think that's the fun thing about relationship [00:30:00] contracts and something that's important in negotiating them, right? It's that, a lot of people assume that the punishment for breaking a clause and a relationship contract is, I will leave you, right?</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Or like, I don't know. But really like the, the primary consequence is, this is written and this is gonna really, really hurt the other person's feelings or reduce their quality of life in a meaningful way. And if you pull a bunch of this, probably they're gonna leave the relationship.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> But like, just know that really this isn't like, oh, I have to leave. Like, if,</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> if you cheat this way, then you don't do the, I'm gonna leave thing in a relationship. Is the moment you don't do that mm-hmm. If that was one of your rules. Mm-hmm. And that was the primary thing, enforcing your rules. Then none of the other rules matter anymore because now everybody knows that the rules that you're not gonna leave.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Yeah. Yeah. And, and it just makes you look pathetic. But if, if the rules are, Hey, that'll really hurt me, will, then what you're using to, well prevent them from doing it, is the knowledge of how it will make you [00:31:00] feel. Which is, which is most honest, intrinsically you're going to react that way.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> But in many ways, it's like much more immoral to break a clause. Out of how, it will make the other person feel. Mm-hmm. Versus well, it's</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> a little more fair, like with the fat clause, it's understood given our personal aesthetics that if the other partner gets fat, we're not gonna find them.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Physically attractive. We're not gonna wanna bang them as much, like, cause it's gross to us. And to each his own. And that's, I, I, I prefer that to like someone not having that kind of clause in a relationship contract. And then one partner getting a little roun. And then being really disappointed that the other partner isn't interested.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> There's so</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> very good point. Yeah. I mean, I'm really glad you know that, that when I trip that clause, wouldn't you let me know when I'm about to trip it. You, you, you, you'll let me know when, when you're making the call. No, but it's, it's really helpful because Well, because here's,</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> I would do otherwise,</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> right?</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Like one never had an expectation that you would like me if I was no</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> longer. The way [00:32:00] it normally works, right, is one partner gets a little fat, they let themselves go, like aesthetically. It doesn't have to be about fatness. It could be like maybe they just stop wearing nice clothes or they stop showering as much and they start to smell.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> And then like what happens is then the other partner stops banging them or showing interest in them the same way, they not taking initiative anymore. And then partner number one, Starts being like, oh, like why are they ignoring me? Like they're being so mean. And then, and then sort of like that trips other unwritten contract violations.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Like, I want you to make me feel loved. I want you to make me feel pretty. And so like there's this sort of spiraling back and forth is all these unspoken. Like parts of of relationship contracts are violated. Right. And then it falls apart. But you know what, Malcolm, we should have a separate chat about relationship contracts.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Absolutely. Fun. Absolutely. And I love you Simone. I I am so glad you found me</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> yes. Well, and speaking of submission, I need to go preheat the oven and put in baked potatoes and Brussels sprouts. So, let's go do that.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> I love you, Malcolm.</p> <br /><br />This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_2">basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe</a>