NPC Memes and the Next Gender

<p>Malcolm and Simone analyze the bizarre TikTok trend of women acting like NPCs and eating viewer-sent emojis. They discuss pioneers like Cherry Crush and Pinkie Doll who understand internet psychology. Malcolm argues this caters to semi-males with lower testosterone, not sexual release. The content infantilizes male sexuality through repetition and predictability. Simone wonders if environmental estrogen is creating new gender expressions, not just sexualities. They debate the effects on young people and humanity's future.</p><p>Transcription </p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> [00:00:00] This is not</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> content that is meant to be masturbated to. This is content that's meant to be passively consumed. For longer periods of time, I think that type of content may explicitly be appealing to this new type of man who has much lower testosterone and hasn't fully differentiated into a male.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Wow. That is what I think is really interesting here is it's actually like porn. But for the next generation</p><p>Would you like to know more?</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> hello, Malcolm.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Hello, Simone. I am so excited to be talking to you today because we're going to do something new. We're going to try to do something at least semi topical because we've talked about doing this for a while. And this is on this meme that's been going around.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Of this new style of video within TikTok. And we will have some examples of it play here.</p><p><strong>Cherry Crush:</strong> , crunchy corn, [00:01:00] yum, yeehaw, um, pizza, yum, um, ice cream, um, um, um, yum, um, bread, yum.</p><p><strong>Cherry Crush:</strong> Mmm, yum. I'm hungry. Crunchy corn, yum.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> The two most prominent people doing this are Cherry Crush and somebody named Pinkie Doll. What I want to get into with this is what is really going on here? Cause I think a lot of people are just looking at this and being like, this is absurd.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> This is</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> weird. This makes me sick. That's a really common response. I'm like,</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> this is a sign of the degradation of our society. But I actually think that there's a more interesting phenomenon here than that, and the people who are getting engaged with this as content producers, [00:02:00] especially these early people have shown themselves to be incredibly astute, intelligent, and understand aspects of the human condition that we may not have full access to.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> I also think this might represent a change in human biology that we've been seeing with drops in testosterone and stuff like that, which is something I'm really excited to dig deeper into. But first let's talk about, I guess I'll start with Cherry Crush. Okay. Because I think it's easy to look at this person and because what she's doing is ridiculous, assume that she doesn't.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Like that she's incompetent or something like that, or she's just your standard, like e thought, but she's actually been at the forefront of several online phenomenons in a way that's allowed her to monetize them. So two other online phenomenons that she was at the forefront of and has done quite well within one is the ASMR movement.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> You're familiar with [00:03:00] ASMR. Do you want to talk to that to some extent? Yes.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> ASMR involves riffing on. A genuine kind of tickling feeling that you can get, or tingling feeling that you can get from certain subtle sounds. So examples of ASMR are people like... On wrapping delicate things, brushing hair, there's a lot of like overlap between ASMR and also like really childhood like comforting things.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> So some ASMR videos are like, I'm going to do your makeup or I'm going to brush your hair or I'm going to tuck you in at night. Like it's very infantilizing. And I think that there might be some element of it, but that is independent from the fact that for some people. These delicate ASMR sounds, whispered, tapping, et cetera can elicit a kind of like tingling down your spine feeling.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Okay.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> So this is really interesting because I think this is something we actually see cross species in species with really advanced. auditory cortexes. So in birds and stuff like that, you will see them involuntarily begin to dance. And there's great carrots and [00:04:00] stuff involuntarily dancing.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> And whenever a sensory system is advanced enough, it appears to be able to fire in weird ways with certain types of complex stimuli. I suspect that this system is very similar to the way you get a positive feeling with, we've got these in our house, these head things that you put on your head to slowly go over.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Yes, those things. But or really gently rubbing fingers across somebody's skin. What you're doing in both of these scenarios is you're very gently stimulating a large amount of a person's sensory system. And I think we call these sexual feelings because we don't have a way of engaging with them outside of sexuality.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> We're</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> never gonna get monetized. We've never made it through an episode where I feel like there's [00:05:00] not something that demonetizes</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> us. No, with super, with supernormal stimuli, right? Yeah. You wouldn't find it in a normal environment, but that represents more of a type of simulation than that system's going to get naturally.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> And because whenever somebody is just trying to feel an emotion at a maximum context, the way that we contextualize that is almost always sexual. We sometimes have trouble fully appreciating that these systems are not necessarily sexual. They're not actually reproduction.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> I was just reading some studies this morning about oxytocin levels in different ape groups, and they definitely found that. Yeah, sure. Sexual interaction would increase oxytocin levels in among eight populations, but so would grooming behavior. So if we're picking lice off of each other and, brushing our fingers through each other's hair, very similar to what you're talking about, that also is increasing oxytocin levels, this level of bonding, this level of like pleasure as well.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> So you're totally right. And it is. It is so [00:06:00] close to sexual, but it's not sexual. And I think that's, with ASMR, people are talking a lot about Oh no, this is definitely a sex thing. This is definitely, and there are ways you can make it sexy for sure. But it's not by definition sexy.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Exactly. So I think that Take that aside. So one, she is on the forefront of new movements with how the internet has learned to engage different aspects of that an individual might be trying to masturbate,</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> right? To feel good. You don't have to use that word constantly. To feel good in a nonproductive way.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Another word because feeling good doesn't properly capture what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, Somebody is trying to maximally engage an emotional stimuli system using supernormal stimuli. That's...</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> That is a mouthful. Okay. We'll find a better word.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> So next another area where she gained a lot of prominence early on is she was one of the first people to really...</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> engage fully [00:07:00] with, in pornography, anime like characters.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Oh, so she does like OnlyFans style stuff too?</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Yeah. I think even straight up more explicit stuff than that. Oh. But in really high quality prosthetics and wigs. Wow. Like an elf or something like that from different anime shows.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Good for her. No, but this was,</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> that's cool. That is an innovation. That is actually a pretty good innovation. Cause you're like she is bridging the divide between filmed porn and hentai. That is innovation, props are</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> her. No, that is innovation. So I think when I</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> see the dudes, also,</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> I don't know.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> I haven't. Look I see, I was reading about her. Okay. I don't know. You</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> weren't for research checking things out.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> But what I, yeah, I need to do better research though.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> I guess I will. I'm the one who looks at the actual primary materials.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> This [00:08:00] is somebody who has. Thoroughly researched and been at the forefront of different ways that the internet is exploiting different aspects of the human psychological condition.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Yeah. In terms of maximizing certain stimuli response systems. So it's not somebody who is An idiot, let's put it that way. Yeah.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Although she's certainly, framing herself that way, but that is to exploit a market opportunity. She's like, why did she an expert trader on Wall Street finding this amazing like arbitrage opportunity.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Yeah. Yeah. And everyone's oh, you dumb, no. What you, sorry guys, you're wrong here. And she is rolling in it and you're just sitting at home being poor.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> No. And then you've got this other character, pinky doll. Okay. This is another girl who, we'll show a video of her.</p><p><strong>PinkyDoll:</strong> For you. Take your cash. Take your kilo. Yes, yes, yes. Take your audience. Oh, thank you, Samantha. This is so cool. Take your cat in. Take your mail. So get ready. Gang, gang. Oh, thank you, baby. This is so</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Then you have Pinkie Doll, who's the other character who's [00:09:00] become very popular in doing this, right? So you could dismiss her, say, okay, she's just jumping on a trend or something like that, because this wasn't a trend that either of them invented. Somebody got popular doing this, I think, basically accidentally in Japan, and then it became a thing there, and then they were looking for...</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> What's the next thing? And that's when they brought this to the U.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> S. And I've seen this style rift on in very different contexts. Explain what you mean by that. Like people posting videos, like to Reddit and whatnot, where they, or their girlfriends or their boyfriends are acting like NPCs and moving like NPCs and they're really satisfying to watch, but I've not seen it in a.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Like feed, streamer, OnlyFans context, or Shorts</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Yeah, and I think that this is something different. I think the NPC, I think it's closer to ASMR than it is to anything else.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> But it is a style, it is stylized, and it is satisfying. Like it's a very satisfying thing to watch for some reason, to see this crossover between video games and a human.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> But before</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> we talk too much about it, let's talk about Pinkie Doll, because [00:10:00] I want to establish that neither of these people, they may dress like the way we would aesthetically assume a stupid person would dress, but I think that's more to please their audience than a sign of their actual intelligence or understanding.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Pinkie Doll does a very interesting thing in her videos that is unrelated to this, which is she will hold A curling iron. Yeah, a curling iron. And in, in the center of it will be a kernel of popcorn and she will hold it till it pops, and then she'll go pick up another one and then do it again. And hand pop, entire things of popcorn.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> And some people, when they're trying to copy the style now I, I've seen people they'll just hold curling irons not understanding why she's doing this or what she's doing. Oh, no. So what is she actually doing here? She is creating anticipation, which increases viewer watch time. So if a viewer sees her holding this, they're going to ask, is that what she's doing?</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> I'm going to at least wait to see if this thing</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> pops. If the kernel pops. Yeah. Oh my [00:11:00] gosh. And it's also, you've got some operant conditioning in there because you don't know when. It's going to pop. It's totally unknown. And it</p><p>creates</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> cut points for you, the viewer. You are unlikely, if you've been watching for a while and she's been holding it for a while since the last pop, you're not going to want to leave until the next pop.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> A bit of a one more turn thing. Oh. Because it's created into individual units of time through this system. And as soon as you've just gotten that last dopamine hit from the last pop, you're waiting for the next one. Meanwhile, she's doing this complete other system. That's. That's engaging a complete other mental system.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Describe this. Yes. So let's talk about what this phenomenon is. So the viewers will have seen it. I will have played a few video clips of it. So they'll understand what's going on, but the way that they would frame what they're doing is they are acting like an NPC and then people will pay for a little tokens, hot dogs and stuff like that. And</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> tacos and [00:12:00] roses and corn. Yeah. And</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> as they're going up, they'll pretend to eat them and then make a preset noise.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Yeah. And there, there seem to be other things that people can, pay for that make them make other reaction noises that sound like. And PC noises.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> They sound pre recorded. So it's not like they're reacting as like a human would. It sounds like they're repeating sound bites, if that</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> makes sense. Yes. Yes. And Simone, this is actually really important for our viewers. We're going to need you to do it for</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> the, for the audience. Let's see. They bounce and then they're kind of like.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Oh, what does she do? Mmm, Yum. Corn. Yum. Rose. Yum. Um, ,, does she, what else should she eat? Yum. Corn. I, I can only think of corn, but yeah, she'll like crunch corn. Yeah. Okay. Cut crunch corn .</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Yeah. I'm so sorry I did that to you.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> I can't [00:13:00] believe you. No, but the thing is, and when I look at it like everyone else is oh, this is.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> This is sick. This is this is perverse, like disgusting, sexy stuff that people are doing. And I see it. And my first reaction is this is what every mother who's desperate to get her children to eat food is doing all the time. I'm like, this is, this is me and our kids all the time. I'm like um, like eat it.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Yes. Oh, yummy. Vitamin. Like That is my day. I think that's a</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> very important point. So let's break out a few things that are happening here. Okay. One is the infantilization of male sexuality, right?</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> if we can even call it sexuality anymore.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Yeah. I think more important to that, I think this is an explicitly sexual act.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> What is being done in these videos? I do not think this is more like generic.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Women eating emojis.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Yes, I do think it's an explicitly sexual act, but I think it's different than the way our generation thinks of sexuality. So one of the things that's really important to remember with males is [00:14:00] we've looked at something at a 30% drop in testosterone in the past 20 years.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> We are seeing a change where men, you've seen this with the the studies on</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> I think you're referring to studies on the effect of at least as measured in first trimester of endocrine disruptors on Children, especially boys, and that it seems to be that there's a correlation between higher levels of endocrine disruptors and at least first trimester mother.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> blood samples and shorter anogenital distance. And even later in life less male sexually divergent behavior, which is to say the boys are acting less like boys. And they're also like, they've become less boys be like, even when it comes to genital formation, their penises haven't made it all the way up in their migration.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> It's weird,</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> but yeah. So while I think that this behavior this type of content. is meant to appeal to a sexual system. In our generation, men engaged with sexual systems through [00:15:00] full masturbation, right?</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Okay. Like traditional old fashioned, not the new kind you're describing, but whatever.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> This is not</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> content that is meant to be masturbated to. This is content that's meant to be passively consumed. For longer periods of time, I think that type of content may explicitly be appealing to this new type of man who has much lower testosterone and hasn't fully differentiated into a male.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Wow. That is what I think is really interesting here is it's actually like porn. But for the next generation.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> The frogs have been turned gay and now they like watching NPCs eat emojis. Is that what you're saying?</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> This is the thing. We expected the frogs to turn gay. And the rate of... Of people identifying as LGBT has exploded.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Yeah. Yes, a portion are definitely turning gay due to</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> But more [00:16:00] importantly, what you're saying is this isn't about changing sexual orientation. Of course, our argument is there is gay straight is also an incredibly stupid kind of distinction to make. But more, more broadly, sexuality is changing across the board.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> And with lower testosterone levels, you're going to get all sorts of weird attraction. And we've talked with, prominent people in the MGTOW space, for example, we are going to have on soon. And we've already recorded the interview Sandman MGTOW who's had a lot of really thoughtful things to say about what has happened to, to generations of men.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> And he too is observing like pretty significant shifts in sexual behavior. I think, we're seeing this, many people are seeing this and it's showing up in weird ways. And I think, yeah, you're totally right. People are missing the beat when they see Cherry Crush and they see, oh my gosh the pinky doll.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> And they just like, they can't understand it because there's literally a new evolution of mindset that they can't wrap their heads around.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> They're biologically not. It's, I couldn't masturbate to like gay male porn, right? I'm just not [00:17:00] going to understand the appeal of that content, but I can conceptually understand it's appealing to someone.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Yeah. This seems to appeal to a semi male. Like a male who might not be fully gender differentiated. And this is something that we hear throughout the manosphere. Like you were referring to this interview with Sandman. And one of the things he was referring to is a very interesting thing in the sort of new men's movement are these men.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Who are, can't find partners, but they're not even looking for partners. They no longer, they are both in cells, but also don't care that they're in cells. They don't feel this strong desire to go out and have this need fulfilled in the way that previous generations</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> did.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> And that's likely a biological change.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> And so this content may be content that wouldn't have appealed to men before. So let's talk about what makes it different and what makes it so brilliant. It's not content that's designed to be [00:18:00] like masturbated to, to release, like in a traditional context, right? It's not content that it's very infantilized content, right?</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> It's literally</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> how I talk to our children when I'm begging them to eat food.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Yeah and it is very miss methodical and turn off your brain content in that they're engaging multiple systems like the popping corn and the other thing where it's literally like a direct brain hack and people are sitting there.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Allowing their brain to be hacked with this system. Nobody's coming out of one of these sessions thinking like that was such a</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> productive, I'm a different person now. Yeah. I</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> mean, what are your thoughts? Do you think that this theory is,</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Yeah, I do think that this is part of a new wave of human sexuality.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> I also think that, that maybe the infantilization is not. They're not necessarily tied together. I think that [00:19:00] infantilization is something that is separately being societally imposed upon youth. And that there's something that we can do about that. I think it's going to take a lot of work, a lot of regulation and a lot of money.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> To lower exposure to endocrine disruptors in a way that could bring human sexuality back to something. They don't care.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Yeah. Talk about this recent study about trans</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> people. Yeah. A bunch of scientists essentially said in a paper that there's no need. To have a pregnant person who is a trans man stop taking androgens</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> they said that it would be unethical to research whether or not it hurts a baby. for somebody to transition while pregnant because asking that question would be attempting to maximize the health outcome of the child and attempting to maximize the health outcome of the child is intrinsically</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> eugenic.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> It's not even transitioning. It's, it is maintaining, your transitioned position as well. Okay. [00:20:00] You'd, you'd need to keep taking androgens. But the point being is</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> They refuse to research this. Because attempting to help a child, they call it maximizing the health outcome of the infant, was eugenic in their mind.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> So</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> what you're saying is overall society isn't that interested in not disrupting our endocrine system. It's not just</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Disinterested. If you said something like we need to get these pollutants out of the environment, what they would say is, so what? So babies are healthier? Isn't that eugenics trying</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> to make a big deal out of the primary issue that seems to come out from the research has to do with like reproductive fitness or gender problems, then I could see there being a lot less interest in, at least among we'll say predominantly progressive circles are like I don't know.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Are you so angry about people coming out, a little different gender wise. What are you so afraid of? Etc. Yeah. So maybe that's a problem. But yeah, I think infantilization is different and I really do wonder what's going on there. I also really want to show these videos. [00:21:00] I want to, I want our kids to see cherry crush.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> I want our kids to watch pinky doll and I want to see how they react. And if there is into her as I expect them to be, cause I think they're going to be. Equally entranced and to me, that would be a sign that this is a very like infant style or not. Toddler style, our boys are toddlers but they, I think they've seen similar content and been pretty into it.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> I don't</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> actually. I'm going to put, I think they may not be really, I guess</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Blippi is a lot more intellectually engaging than</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> and that's, what's interesting is these kids shows we're showing them are much more intellectually engaging than stuff that adults are engaging with. Yeah. But also just the willful turning off of your brain to engage with this content in any sort of a long form scenario.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> And that you're paying to do this. You're paying to feel like you have some interaction with this person. Like what?</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Oh yeah, you have to pay. So presumably one pays for the emojis that are being consumed. Yes. Yeah. I [00:22:00] wonder how much they cost. Like a dollar? That's like a lot of money. I'm just thinking, geez, yeah I would love to see where this goes.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> I would also like, now that you've pointed out that Especially cherry crush is a pioneer in online human comfort seeking. And diversion. I would love to see what she does next. I would love to, if she ever wants to come on the podcast and talk with us about her brilliant methods, I would love to interview her.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Or Pinky Doll. Oh, Pinky Doll too, especially, yeah, like with the curling iron, like how did she figure that out? What was the strategy behind it? What is she looking at doing next? She might not want to show her cards, but yeah I'm so glad you found Pinky doll</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> age, and as I said, chair crushes is 32.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Like again, I think she's 32 years old. Yeah. There's this perception that these are like young thoughts instead of like business women where this has been their primary income stream for the past decade of their life. Amazing. [00:23:00] Yeah. That's, it's a very different scenario and you have to become good at these systems and through that you can understand aspects of how appetites are changing.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> And I think that there's always this natural reaction where if something's different from what you like. Or is culturally approved within your group, you react, you say, that's disgusting, that's pathetic, that's the fall of society, but different, in this case, I do think that they're appealing to, I'd almost call it like a new gender, like the semi male.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> No, because</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Do you think they're, I guess their audiences are primarily male? Yeah,</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> hormonally, I am pretty sure that this is basically a new gender. I</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> love that you just pronounced hormones the way that Bronze Age Pervert spells it. W H O R E M O A N S. Yeah, no, hormones are changing. They</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> are.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> No. I do think that hormonally we're dealing with a potentially a new gender. And this is one of the first ways we're seeing people engage with that gender. [00:24:00] But I'm interested in what happens next. Because I think that the next big movement in men's rights It's a group of men that just doesn't feel biologically motivated to go after women.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> But</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> that has existed. It's a vegetarian man in Japan. And</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Yeah, so maybe this has been around longer in Japan. But,</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> but then I don't know actually, you look at Japan and you look at like the</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> it started in Japan, by the way, this was invented in Japan. Oh my God.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Well, That explains it.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> So there's this like Venn diagram of otaku. And like idol lovers and everything. And then vegetarian men. And yeah, it makes perfect sense that this would come from Japan because the whole like anime world is. Very similar to this. I wonder actually, people talk a lot about how like a lot of there's this problematic interest that many Otaku men have in very youthful, young, high pitched voice, like anime girls.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Now [00:25:00] is, they always say that's because they're, pedo bears, but really. Is it that they're more infantilized? It's like this infantilized mindset and lifestyle. It's just it's not pita bears. It's Peter Pans. You know what I mean?</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> I'd actually say that the bigger trend now is not within these communities towards that stuff.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> I'd say it's actually towards. Mama like figures if you look at one of the recent like big so I'd say what would have been like the two big sexual figures in the online space that have arisen recently. The two I would think of is Resident Evil giant mama lady who was like this eight foot tall giant like sexy mama</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> lady.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Isn't Resident Evil the zombie thing?</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Yes you, you are not that, you are clearly engaged in female online spaces. I can promise you, every single male viewer knows exactly what I'm talking about. Okay, commenters</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> weigh in because I think Malcolm is too niche.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> No. They'll all be like, oh yeah, Resident Evil lady.[00:26:00]</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> We'll see. And then, the other one I would think of would be Bowserette. Bowser, which is, I think, very clearly a trans allegory, or a trans like character, where it is Bowser presenting as a woman, often in Finally realized relationships with Mario like a lot of the things like the song around this are based around this idea that Men should just go out with other men who have transitioned and both of them would be happy because women have nothing on that.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> That's, that women never really appreciate men really. Like in a deep way. And that's what this character to some extent represents. Other people would be like, Oh no it's just hot. And it's how is it hot?</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> I don't know. I'm more in, I'm more I'm leaning toward in this conversation like a Peter Pan camp that cause we can't, neither of us can model this mindset, but I think this mindset is more eternally youthful, like pretty cute, energetic and drawn [00:27:00] to that sometimes from the darkness, from a dark place, from a hopeless place that kind of equally infantilized, but hopeful and energetic kind of just energy.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Yeah. I think is what we're seeing maximized as a super stimuli in these videos.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> So yeah. Our followers can let us know. I think it's a interesting. Concept that we might trended to watch new genders essentially emerging as the pollutants in our environment are changing this next generation of men and</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> women.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> One man's pollutant is another man's magical pill to make people cooler. I'm just saying I'm, whatever it's a wild ride and I'm here for it. And I</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> really, I think it's causing a lot of suicidality, a lot of unhappiness, a lot of unfulfillment. I do not think that humans were optimized around this new type of gender expression.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> And I think that the people who are trapped within it. It's not a good thing. [00:28:00] It would be better if we could get this stuff out of our environment, but I</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> don't know. I think being a frustrated, a sexually frustrated young man would suck way harder. If I had to grow up in this modern world and I could choose to be, like, indifferent and in a new gender dimension versus a very sexually frustrated young man with a very high sex drive, Oh my.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> God, I would choose the other way. Yeah, I,</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> I suppose, especially if you're born into this progressive urban monoculture. Come on, man. No,</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> even not. Look at very patriarchal, traditional, like honor based cultures. Where like women and men are highly segregated and the men are definitely like much more, like high testosterone, et cetera.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> These men look miserable. There are rapes, like the free radicals in those societies. I don't think that's true at all.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Simone, I think successful men in those cultures are not miserable. I,</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Oh no, no, no, no. Of course the successful men are doing</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> just fine. I think the majority of men in these cultures are successful.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> I think like [00:29:00] 70%. I think that the old ways very much still do work in our modern society.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> And in a monogamous society, I'm not thinking about monogamous societies.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> I'm thinking what you're saying. Our society is a monogamous. It's not, but within these cultural groups, it is you go to Mormon communities, for example,</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> I'm not referring to like Christian communities, like the ones I'm</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> thinking, that's what I'm talking about.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> What I'm saying is this, if you're born, yeah, it does make sense that you're not cursed with wanting something if you're born in an already. Fallen cultural group that's not really able to deliver you happiness, at least you have less desires. I can agree with that. However, I do think that whatever survives of humanity.</p><p><strong>Malcolm:</strong> Is likely cultural groups that, that are going to be interested in protecting themselves from these pollutants. Our audience can give us their thoughts in the comments. This is definitely one of those areas where we have not fully thought through this yet.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Yeah. It's really cool.</p><p><strong>Simone:</strong> Tell us what you think. And Malcolm, I look forward</p> <br /><br />This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_2">basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe</a>