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How Did RFK Jr. Get Like This?

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December 7, 2025

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How did Robert F. Kennedy — once the heir-apparent to the Kennedy family's Democratic dynasty — become the Secretary of Health in the Trump administration and the nation's most important anti-vaccine advocate? Michael Scherer, staff writer at The Atlantic, sat down with Kennedy for 7+ hours, getting to know him during jean-clad workouts, Congressional hearings, and the plane ride where Kennedy learned of the assassination of Charlie Kirk. The image Michael paints of Kennedy, in a profile published in The Atlantic this month, is a man of extreme changes — a promising political figure turned heroin addict, an environmental lawyer turned anti-vaccine activist, a Democratic presidential candidate turned Republican Secretary of Health. Contributor Alex Wagner sits down with Michael for an interesting conversation to ask if a better understanding of the strange political figure can help us better make sense of his dangerous approach to health and politics.

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Crooked believes that we need a better conversation about politics, culture, and the world around us—one that doesn’t just focus on what’s broken, but what we can do to fix it. At a time when it’s increasingly easy to feel cynical or hopeless, former Obama staffers Jon Favreau, Jon Lovett, and Tommy Vietor have created a place where people can have sane conversations that inform, entertain, and inspire action. In 2017 they started Crooked with Pod Save America—a no-bullshit conversation about politics. Since then, we continue to add shows, voices, and opportunities for activism, because it’s up to all of us to do our part to build a better world. That’s it. End of mission.

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Guests & Subjects Covered

Robert F KennedyMichael SchererThe AtlanticCharlie Kirk TheRepublican SecretaryHealth Contributor Alex WagnerPDS DEBTCODE CROOKED CHAPTERS

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