Florida Book Banning | Suzanne Nossel | TMR

Joined by Suzanne Nossel, CEO of PENAmerica, to discuss the organization’s efforts to combat censorship efforts at the state level by Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. Suzanne Nossel parses through how her work on censorship has progressed over the last decade, shifting from hyper-localized protests by parents to a full-scale legislative assault from state governments, walking through the myriad education-based restrictions coming out of Governor DeSantis’ office in Florida and the massive difference between interpersonal disputes over speech and authoritarianism at the invocation of the state, before wrapping up the interview by tackling the specifics of the College Board’s battle over AP African American history.

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I want to Welcome to the program Suzanne Nossel. She's the CEO of PENAmerica. Suzanne welcome to the program. You guys have been doing a lot of work on what's going on in Florida. Just to have at least three laws that have passed that essentially make it harder for teachers to teach things. I mean and to have books. Just characterize what's going on in Florida in a broad way relative to what you have seen in this space as it were. Yeah look I mean relative to what I've seen in this space I have to say you know it remains pretty shocking to me what is happening here in our own country. We used to deal at pen America with a book ban we'd have one or two a year. You know a parent somewhere around the country would contact a librarian and ask the book be taken off the shelf. We'd write a letter usually the book was put back. This is something categorically different. This is an assault on education on the freedom to learn. It's ideologically driven. Look I understand some of the roots of this and I sympathize with the idea that some of the ways that we're instructing kids you push the envelope further than parents and communities are comfortable with. That there are certain ideas and perspectives that feel off-limits on particular campuses. It's hard to be a conservative on a college campus these days. And so that's legitimate but to turn to legislation as the weapon of choice which is what governor DeSantis the Florida legislature has done and to respond to informal censoriousness coming from the left with government-mandated edicts that prohibit certain ideas and books from being taught in classrooms that UPS the ante and that to me is inimical to the First Amendment and our freedom of speech. where is that line? Because I mean I think like you know a lot of these actions and we'll go through you know what these laws actually do. And they sort of do two things right I mean they do what is explicit and then they have sort of this almost this sort of like atmosphere around the law that functions as you know in a chilling effect. And in some ways, that sort of like membrane around the law because of its vagueness has an even worse impact. But where is the line here? Like where do we go from you know these college students with their political correctness is you know sort of annoying and oppressive you know to me personally because you know I can't express my ideas without criticism. And then where we cross the line into what is really sort of like genuinely well I don't want to say genuinely problematic. Because although that's what I do feel. But is sort of like an abuse of authority. Like when we get in when we say things like authoritarian you know like where is that lined for for for you coming you know from this space that you've worked in for years?