Debating Pronouns with John McWhorter

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John McWhorter is one of the greatest living experts on the English language. He’s a professor of linguistics at Columbia, a columnist at The New York Times, and a Broadway obsessive. He once told me that he couldn’t do an interview because he was rehearsing a cabaret show for his bungalow colony. It sounded like a scene out of "The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel." But in his day job John thinks about words, about the evolving English language and, most recently, about the recently controversial topic of pronouns.

John McWhorter has a truly independent mind. He has been one of the most outspoken critics of liberalism from the left. His last book was called "Woke Racism," so you know where he stands. But now he’s taking a position that will definitely provoke the other side. In his new book, "Pronoun Trouble," John makes the provocative case that the English language evolves in ways that don’t always make sense, but that’s okay. And he actually takes it a step further. He says that the wide adoption of they/them in the singular—instead of he/him, or she/her—not only works, but might be a good development.

The stakes of these little words are high. For example, if we as a society did what John suggests, are we disrespecting women and men when we fail to acknowledge in our language who has dealt with the challenges of womanhood or manhood, and who hasn’t?

And what are the consequences of letting children specifically adopt they/them pronouns, especially if it pushes them toward medical transition or simply just confusion? At the same time, how do we create a society that is inclusive and kind, but also reflective of actual reality? And is it even possible to have both? The broader context of this language conversation, of course, is about what can and cannot be said depending on our cultural moment. We talk about this, about that broader context, the state of the woke left—but also the rise of the woke right. I put all of these questions and more to linguist and cultural commentator, my friend John McWhorter.