Mike Pence Plans To Fight DOJ Subpoena For Testimony Against Trump

According to reports, former Vice President Mike Pence is expected to fight the subpoena that was issued against him by the DOJ last week. He will allegedly use the "speech or debate" clause to try to avoid testifying, but that may not necessarily apply to this situation since he wasn't actually considering legislation - and he isn't under criminal investigation! Ring of Fire's Farron Cousins discusses this bizarre move.

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*This transcript was generated by a third-party transcription software company, so please excuse any typos.

Reports came out this week suggesting that former Vice President Mike Pence, is actually planning on fighting the subpoena that was issued against him last week by Special prosecutor Jack Smith. Now, these reports suggest that Pence's legal team is considering invoking the speech or debate clause, which of course says that hey, a member of Congress is not liable for, you know, any kind of criminal activity or any kind of shady things if it's a part of their routine investigation to gather information about pending legislation. And I didn't mean for all that to rhyme, that was just a weird coincidence. That's why I kind of paused there for a minute. But it basically is, listen, if it's within your duties as a member of Congress, if it's for a piece of legislation, you can do it. You don't have to testify about it. You don't have to give up all your info.

That should be part of your regular job. And it's meant to protect members of Congress so that they can do those kinds of things. The problem is, is that it's meant for members of Congress and, uh, Mike Pence was, was the vice president. And yes, he was presiding over a congressional hearing. They, they, they weren't considering legislation. They were just there to certify the electoral college votes. And Mike Pence was just the presiding officer. He didn't even have a vote. He was just the ceremonial figurehead. So I don't know how the speech or debate clause here is gonna work. And let's also not forget that Lindsey Graham, Republican senator from South Carolina tried to invoke the speech or debate clause in the state of Georgia to avoid testifying in front of that special grand jury. He said, listen, you know, I was just on a fact finding mission that's covered under speech or debate.

I don't have to comply with subpoenas. And then the court said, yeah, you do, because there was no legislation tied to this. You, you were just doing it. And we determined the courts did that certifying the electoral college vote is not considered legislation that you would have to go on a fact finding mission for. So there's already legal precedent to smack down this potential argument from former Vice President Mike Pence. So we know certifying the electoral college results in the eyes of the court is not speech or debate cuz it's not legislation. Two, Mike Pence wasn't even a member of the body that can claim speech or debate clause. So you may not even have the standing to make that claim. Three, you are not under criminal investigation. So what the hell are you trying to hide? Who are you trying to protect? That's what's driving me crazy because Pence isn't a target from the d oj, he's just a guy with information. So who are you trying To protect?

And the answer to that is very simple and very obvious. He's trying to protect himself, not because he's in legal trouble, but because he's in electoral trouble. He wants to run for president. He is not done with politics, he is not done with political life. And if he is forced to go into, uh, that special prosecutor's office in front of that grand jury and spill the beans on his fellow Republicans, they'll never forgive him, the elected officials or the Republican voting base, they will never forgive him. His career will be over. So he wants to fight this subpoena, not because he's worried about hurting himself legally, but because he knows that it's basically a career killer if he has to flip on all those Republicans.