Olivia Nuzzi Breaks Her Silence | The Bulwark Podcast

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It’s a scandal that has captivated much of the political and media professions: the story of how Olivia Nuzzi, a writer formerly of New York magazine and now Vanity Fair’s West Coast editor, was involved in a relationship with Robert F. Kennedy Jr. during the 2024 campaign.

Nuzzi and Kennedy’s relationship has provided incredible fodder for the press, not least because her ex-fiancé, former Politico correspondent Ryan Lizza, has been publishing a multi-part series on the matter in which he has unspooled numerous accusations against Nuzzi and RFK Jr. in anticipation of the publication of Nuzzi’s book, American Canto, on Tuesday. Among the serious allegations that Lizza has leveled: that Nuzzi secretly aided RFK Jr.’s campaign, that RFK Jr. hid drug use, and that RFK Jr. was both manipulative of and threatening to Nuzzi during their relationship.

Nuzzi has not discussed any of it on camera.

Until now.

In a sitdown interview with The Bulwark’s Tim Miller, Nuzzi talked about the ethical breaches that cost her her job, the conflicts between her responsibilities as a reporter and her relationship with RFK Jr., and the fear and isolation she said she experienced as the scandal unfolded. She described withdrawing from the world, fleeing across the country, and trying to rebuild her sense of self while contending with public shaming and what she called the “weaponization” of her personal life against her.

Nuzzi and Miller discussed her relationship with RFK Jr. and the wreckage that followed. She offered some insights and revelations regarding the now-health and human services secretary—who has denied the relationship—including whether he continues to use drugs while occupying a cabinet post, what type of threats she felt, and why she didn’t feel compelled to speak up as it became clear that Kennedy was ascending to remarkable heights of political power.

Nuzzi and Miller also discussed the broader political moment that shaped all of it: the Trump era’s constant clash between reality and spectacle, the corrosion of public trust, and the ways journalists become characters in the dramas they cover.

And Nuzzi and Miller broached one of the more understated questions throughout this entire sordid ordeal: Why even bother writing this book to begin with? Nuzzi described writing as an act of survival, suggesting she found a kind of clarity by separating herself from Washington, D.C.’s rituals and delusions. But along the way, she said, she became further entrenched in the delusions she was hoping to escape.

Show Notes:

Buy American Canto by Olivia Nuzzi