John McWhorter and Greg Thomas – Debating Deracialization

<p>This week, John McWhorter and I are joined by Greg Thomas, senior fellow at the Institute for Cultural Evolution and CEO of the Jazz Leadership Project, to discuss one of our perennial Big Questions: Are we ready to deracialize? As you may have gathered from <a href="https://glennloury.substack.com/p/greg-thomas-a-future-for-black-tradition#details" target="_blank">his previous TGS appearance</a>, that’s the kind of issue Greg loves to sink his teeth into. But I do have some questions of my own for Greg. Let’s get into it.</p><p>We begin with <strong>a little jazz talk</strong>. I ask Greg how he goes about incorporating the principles of the music into the workshops he leads with the <strong>Jazz Leadership Project</strong>. He goes on to explain how the history of jazz provides a way of understanding how we can begin to envision <strong>a society that moves past race</strong>. Greg uses the work of <strong>Albert Murray and Ralph Ellison</strong> as examples, but I want to know why I and other black people should have to <strong>abandon our racial self-identification</strong>? Surely this task can’t fall to black people alone. I suggest to Greg that he’s unjustifiably <strong>conflating black identity and the victim mentality</strong>—you can have the former without the latter. After a brief discussion about <strong>whiteness and deracialization</strong>, Greg departs, leaving John and me to do <strong>a quick review of 2022 and to look ahead to 2023</strong>. </p><p>This is a fiery one! It’s our final episode of the year. Thank you all for watching, listening, and reading. John and I will be back in 2023. See you there!</p><p>Featured Content from the Manhattan Institute</p><p>Daniel Di Martino <a href="https://www.manhattan-institute.org/improving-us-immigration-employment-based-visas" target="_blank">released a report with reforms to America’s immigration system</a>, which is turning off high-skilled immigrants due to slow processing and unneeded bureaucracy.  </p><p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlGjSCNjPzQ&#38;t=0s" target="_blank">0:00</a> The principles of jazz </p><p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlGjSCNjPzQ&#38;t=434s" target="_blank">7:14</a> “Deracialization Now” </p><p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlGjSCNjPzQ&#38;t=780s" target="_blank">13:00</a> Becoming Omni-American </p><p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlGjSCNjPzQ&#38;t=1246s" target="_blank">20:46</a> What’s wrong with racial identification? </p><p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlGjSCNjPzQ&#38;t=1536s" target="_blank">25:36</a> Black victimization and cultural memory </p><p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlGjSCNjPzQ&#38;t=2115s" target="_blank">35:15</a> The transformations of James Baldwin </p><p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlGjSCNjPzQ&#38;t=2530s" target="_blank">42:10</a> Convincing white people to deracialize </p><p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlGjSCNjPzQ&#38;t=2920s" target="_blank">48:40</a> Takeaways from 2022 </p><p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlGjSCNjPzQ&#38;t=3333s" target="_blank">55:33</a> 2023’s big Supreme Court decisions</p><p>Links and Readings</p><p><a href="https://www.jazzleadershipproject.com/" target="_blank">Jazz Leadership Project</a></p><p><a href="https://www.culturalevolution.org/" target="_blank">Institute for Cultural Evolution </a></p><p><a href="https://bmecommunity.org/" target="_blank">BME Community</a></p><p><a href="https://freeblackthought.substack.com/p/deracialization-now" target="_blank">Greg’s essay, “Deracialization Now” </a></p><p><a href="https://smile.amazon.com/Omni-Americans-Alternatives-Folklore-White-Supremacy/dp/1598536524" target="_blank">Albert Murray’s book, </a><a href="https://amazon.com/Omni-Americans-Alternatives-Folklore-White-Supremacy/dp/1598536524" target="_blank"><em>The Omni-Americans: Some Alternatives to the Folklore of White Supremacy</em></a><a href="https://smile.amazon.com/Omni-Americans-Alternatives-Folklore-White-Supremacy/dp/1598536524" target="_blank"> </a></p><p><a href="https://amazon.com/Talking-Back-Black-Truths-Americas/dp/1942658583" target="_blank">John’s book, </a><a href="https://amazon.com/Talking-Back-Black-Truths-Americas/dp/1942658583" target="_blank"><em>Talking Back, Talking Black: Truths about America’s Lingua Franca</em></a></p><p><a href="https://amazon.com/Talking-Back-Black-Truths-Americas/dp/1942658583" target="_blank">Kwame Anthony Appiah’s book, </a><a href="https://amazon.com/Talking-Back-Black-Truths-Americas/dp/1942658583" target="_blank"><em>Cosmopolitanism: Ethics in a World of Strangers</em></a><a href="https://amazon.com/Talking-Back-Black-Truths-Americas/dp/1942658583" target="_blank"> </a></p><p><a href="https://reconstruction.us/home" target="_blank">Reconstruction.us </a></p><p><a href="https://amazon.com/Whose-Votes-Count-Affirmative-Twentieth/dp/0674951964" target="_blank">Abigail Thernstrom’s book,</a><a href="https://amazon.com/Whose-Votes-Count-Affirmative-Twentieth/dp/0674951964" target="_blank"><em> Whose Votes Count?: Affirmative Action and Minority Voting Rights</em></a><a href="https://amazon.com/Whose-Votes-Count-Affirmative-Twentieth/dp/0674951964" target="_blank"> </a></p> <br /><br />This is a public episode. 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