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Is John Roberts the Worst Chief Justice in History? | First Draft
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October 9, 2025
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47:37Now PlayingLisa Graves, an investigative researcher and author of the upcoming book, Without Precedent: How Chief Justice Roberts and His Accomplices Rewrote the Constitution and Dismantled Our Rights, joined Susan Demas for a conversation on how the nation’s highest court lost its moral compass. “John Roberts isn’t an umpire — he’s a Trumpire,” Lisa said, describing how Roberts orchestrated the immunity decision that effectively placed the presidency above the law. As a former Justice Department official who’s tracked Roberts since the Reagan era, she outlined how decades of quiet maneuvering led to a court now openly enabling executive overreach.
Lisa Graves’ new book comes out September 30.
The discussion traced Roberts’ long project: Dismantling the Voting Rights Act, unleashing unlimited political money through Citizens United, and allowing gerrymanders that made democratic accountability nearly impossible. Lisa connected the dots between those legal shifts and the political reality they produced — a U.S. House shaped by billionaires and safe seats, a democracy skewed toward extremism. “This is not a pendulum swing,” Susan added. “It’s a collapse of precedent dressed up as restraint.”
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Their conversation closed with the question of ethics: A Supreme Court awash in billionaire money, spouses profiting from court-linked work, and justices writing their own toothless codes of conduct. Roberts’ refusal to act, Lisa argued, shows the extent to which the Court has become both political and captured. “It’s not about law anymore — it’s about power,” she said.
Tune in to this urgent conversation on the radical Supreme Court with Lisa Graves and Susan Demas.
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